Curse

Old Man Of Ascalon · Jan 07, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I achieved legendary vanquisher the other day and would like to ask some other Legendary Vanquishers or people close to it, the following questions:

What was the hardest area for you to vanquish and why?

What was the most frustrating area for you and why?

What area took you the most tries to complete?

What was your favorite area to vanquish and why?

What was the easiest for you to vanquish (besides Bukdek or The Temple)?

What was the toughest enemy (boss, species, or mob) for you to defeat?

What advice do you have for someone who is or is about to try and get Legendary?

For me:

What was the hardest area for you to vanquish and why?
Eastern Frontier. I had vanquished all the other areas with a friend and we were both Rangers. We wanted to finish together but the grawl in the area were impossible to kill with two rangers in a 4 man party. We eventually had to split and do it alone with heroes.

What was the most frustrating area for you and why?
Tangle Root. We decided it might be a good idea to vanquish the area with the quest "Defend Denravi" active so that there would be no scarabs to steal minions. We found that there were actually twice the enemies and they were all groups of titans that used the same skills. Not hard but incredibly long, tedious and very annoying.

A close second place would be Unwaking Waters, because at the end, there was 1 freaking outcast assassin that was in a spot that we could not reach and it took nearly an hour to pull the assassin close enough to kill without her running away.

What area took you the most tries to complete?
Eastern Frontier. Basically for reasons stated above.

What was your favorite area to vanquish and why?
2 areas come to mind. The entire Droks run was fun because it was nice to go and kill the enemies that had thwarted my Droks runs for so long, and do it it hard mode no less!

The other was The Cursed Lands. Undead+Holy Damage=Great Fun

What was the easiest for you to vanquish (besides Bukdek or The Temple)?
Saoshang Trail was super simple.

What was the toughest enemy (boss, species, or mob) for you to defeat?
The Grawl monks in Eastern Frontier were probably the worst. Rotscale wasn't exactly easy either.

What advice do you have for someone who is or is about to try and get Legendary?
Be prepared before each venture. Check wiki and see what is out there before you go so that you don't complete half the area only to find there is a group of enemies that you cannot defeat because you didn't bring the right stuff.

It's also a good idea to carry Powerstones in your inventory so that in extreme emergency cases you can avoid being kicked out of an area due to a screw up or two.

Avoid fighting anywhere near res shrines because nothing is more frustrating than having a massive mob sitting on top of a shrine waiting for you to res after a wipe (or several). The area with Corsairs in Barbarous Shore and the area where you first encounter Tengu in Talus Chute are prime examples.

The fewer actual people you have is usually the better. Heroes normally act, react and perform the same in most areas and once you figure this pattern out you can better approach a situation. People on the other hand are unpredictable and can make silly mistakes. Find 1 or two other real people to do it with and keep it simple. If you find a build that works, stick with it unless the area determines otherwise.

Simplicity is bliss. Making over complicated team builds will normally end in failure. The simplest builds worked best for us. As long as you can control your aggro, a simple build that works will never fail you. Gimmicky builds never work well.

Thats about it, I'd love to hear from you all on your experiences and would be more than happy to give advice or help out people who are stuck or need help in a specific area.

Happy Hunting!

EDIT: BTW this is the build that took us all the way:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/User:Ol...alon/Vanqbuild

OOshadeOO · Jan 08, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

with those necro builds whoever made them i literaly c+ space alot of vanqu become a bit easy

I D E L E T E D I · Jan 08, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

Gimmicky builds never work well.

So your saying Sabs Builds which is THEEE Gimmick build in PvE is bad??

Bryant Again · Jan 08, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Speaking of Sab:I just realized that I've never used her build is because I'm too lazy to set it up.

Funny, huh?

Esan · Jan 08, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

The so-called "Sab's build" is not a gimmick. People have been using MMs and SSs in their teams since May 2005, if not earlier, because these roles work well together. Jagged bombing heroes have been around since the release of nightfall because it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that this is the only MM build heroes can play well.

The resto N/Rt in the build that makes it feel like a gimmick is inessential. Any decent monk build works just as well, if not better. I've personally become fond of N/E warders with microed Well of Darkness. Same SR exploitiness, better useful shutdown (i.e., not interrupts).

On the topic of the thread, I used to think that vanquishing was the last remaining PvE activity that required a functioning brain, but GW:EN's PvE skills have removed that necessity.

Old Man Of Ascalon · Jan 08, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

So your saying Sabs Builds which is THEEE Gimmick build in PvE is bad??

I don't know, I just found out about Sab about an hour ago and haven't used it yet. However, just by looking at it, I don't see anything remotely "revolutionary" about it, it just looks like another build that worked well for someone.

Honestly though, just from looking at it, I don't see why people are going gaa-gaa over it. I tried many, many, many builds during my time vanquishing and most that I found online were shit-tacular. My partner and I finally sat down and worked out a build we thought would work, then through tons of experiance tweaked it into what became our vanq-build. That build is something I will stand by any day of the week.

slowerpoke · Jan 08, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

wuts sabs build? ;3

Old Man Of Ascalon · Jan 08, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Jagged bombing heroes have been around since the release of nightfall because it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that this is the only MM build heroes can play well.

You sir, are wrong. That's probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say on any GW related forum...ever.

There are loads of MM builds that heroes run well. As a matter of fact 99% of all the MM builds out there are run substantially better on Hero's because of the superior reaction speed on spells that target minions (Death Nova, Jagged, etc).

Also, Jagged Bones is a horrible Elite nowadays.

EDIT* Just loaded up Sabway for the first time....yes, it is a gimmick build and very bad one at that. Thats probably the worst MM build I've ever seen.

Zeek Aran · Jan 08, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

wuts sabs build? ;3

>>; I still don't know it after asking multiple times [never tried looking on PvX], and have RARELY used jagged bombers. 75% done vanqing acrossed the three campaigns. I had the roughest time with the place before mineral springs because of the inability to pull only one [or even a few -.-] groups in the summit camp. With four dolyaks and the whole group pulled, I got them stuck on me, the warrior, while my friend and his heroes SFed them to death.

H/H, I had a lot of trouble with Barbarous Shores because I was too lazy to take precautions on pulling and the dervish Kournan boss massacred my team several times.

Chung, the Attuned was the hardest boss. After losing against him, I found out the trick to killing no one. Nowadays, I'd use the back path [that I didn't know existed at the first attempt] and PI.

Easiest for me was Ice Floe [Port Sledge, right?]. Nothing was moderately difficult, but Plague Signet was annoying.

Rotscale took me the most tries. Ugh. So unprepared. Varajar Fells was the most frustrating also because of lack of preparation. I did very badly at pulling centaur groups and telling my AI to get out of maelstrom.

VitisVinifera · Jan 08, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

[QUOTE=Old Man Of Ascalon]I achieved legendary vanquisher the other day and would like to ask some other Legendary Vanquishers or people close to it, the following questions:

What was the hardest area for you to vanquish and why?

What was the most frustrating area for you and why?

Majesty's Rest -- Rotscale HM is a true beast

What area took you the most tries to complete?

The one right outside Old Ascalon.

What was your favorite area to vanquish and why?

Varajar Falls -- easy esp with Sab build, gives you massive Norn rep, and with 500+ enemies, a nice gold rewardm

What was the easiest for you to vanquish (besides Bukdek or The Temple)?

Shadow's Passage -- all 20 enemies or so

What was the toughest enemy (boss, species, or mob) for you to defeat?

Again, Rotscale

What advice do you have for someone who is or is about to try and get Legendary?

Save up on those holiday consumables. Get good hero builds.

blue.rellik · Jan 08, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

You sir, are wrong. That's probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say on any GW related forum...ever.

There are loads of MM builds that heroes run well. As a matter of fact 99% of all the MM builds out there are run substantially better on Hero's because of the superior reaction speed on spells that target minions (Death Nova, Jagged, etc).

You don't know what you're talking about. You're confused between Minion bombing and Minion master

Quote:

Also, Jagged Bones is a horrible Elite nowadays.

Only the uninformed say that

Quote:

EDIT* Just loaded up Sabway for the first time....yes, it is a gimmick build and very bad one at that. Thats probably the worst MM build I've ever seen.

Because it's not a MM build

?!?!??!?!?

crazybanshee · Jan 08, 2008, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What was the hardest area for you to vanquish and why?

I would have to say either mineral springs (which was only hard because you have to go through tasca's demise first, and with h/h this was tough when you got the groups of 3 healers) so you get there with brutal dp (I did all that vanquishing before gwen came out with consumables) OR icedome, for much the same reason. Those small connecting areas in proph are packed with nasty mobs with tons of healers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What was the most frustrating area for you and why?

For some reason, Ice Floe. I could plow through most of it but at some point I'd rack up the dp and get kicked out, and ended up doing it like 6 times before I finally finished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What area took you the most tries to complete?

Either Ice Floe or Majesty's Rest. Ice Floe was far more frustrating tho because Majesty's Rest basically only had the one group around rotscale, so I could run in there and die in like 10 minutes, as opposed to hours later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What was your favorite area to vanquish and why?

Mmmmm, basically any area that let me get faction (ie norn, sunspear, luxon, whatever) so I could feel like I was doing something extra towards titles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What was the easiest for you to vanquish (besides Bukdek or The Temple)?

I didn't get to use any of those 'quick' ways to vanquish an area, I would have to say either saoshang trail (my first vanquish) or one of the norn areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What was the toughest enemy (boss, species, or mob) for you to defeat?

Rotscale, without a question. After that? hmm, forget the name but that turtle boss in the luxon areas with that massive aoe spike, or one of the rit bosses with the aoe spikes. As for mobs, probably the dang grawl ulodytes around ascalon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

What advice do you have for someone who is or is about to try and get Legendary?

Research the areas you're about to go into, at least have a general idea of what you're going to be fighting. Try to recognize early on if you didn't bring the correct builds and start over, it's easier to do it early than try to plow through and end up either spending tons on consumables or rack up dp and have to struggle to not get kicked out later. Set aside plenty of time (don't try to rush things) Don't be afraid to go out with heros and henchies, don't frown at pvxwiki builds (especially for the hero classes you don't play) And don't do it just for the title. Do it for the accomplishment. And have fun!

VitisVinifera · Jan 08, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Old Man, I wouldn't flame off the Sab Minion Bomber build until you understand it and how heroes run it

HawkofStorms · Jan 08, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Tangle Root was actually one of the easiest for me to do... without "Defend Denravi" of course.

Old Man... why don't you try something and actually research it before insulting people calling it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard." It is offensive and makes you look foolish.

I agree that Rotscale is tough.
4 man zones in Old Ascalon were the ones that took the most time. Of course, I tried starting from there (wanted to progressively go through the game when HM came out). BAD IDEA on my part to start out at some of the hardest HM areas in the game right when HM came out. Took be a good few days to set up a build that worked.

arcanemacabre · Jan 08, 2008, 04:59 AM // 04:59

That minion bomber build is probably the best MM build for heroes, no doubt about it. Any other MM build would probably be better in the hands of a real player, though a hero could work, just not as good as that particular build. The way the AI works, it can micro-manage minions much better than any human.

An SS necro generally works well with an MM, and on its own, and is pretty much a necessity in HM due to increased cast/attack speeds. The rit build in Sab's 3 nec team can be replaced by just about anything that heals, including an actual Rit with a similar build. The party-wide heals is just a nice addition in HM.

Having a single human BHA+Epidemic Ranger, especially in combination of the MM+SS (barbs, mark of pain, minions), pretty much shuts down a whole group of casters, and rips through them in seconds. Throw in an Arcane Echo+Ineptitude+Epidemic Mesmer, and with the Enfeebling Blood of the SS, you've shut down the physicals, too. Everything else is just cake, or thrown in to tackle a specific area.

arsie · Jan 08, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Maybe the OP is just bringing the Jagged Bomber without the other two heroes.

The beauty about Sab's build is that it is nothing new or innovative. Its the whole "duh, why didn't I think of that first?" thing. Its simple, does not need any macro-managing and works in most places with corpses.

The other "gimmick" team that have the same qualities of simplicity and lack of macro-management is the three Paragon + Orders team. But that only really shines when the player is a Paragon with SY! and TntF!.

arcanemacabre · Jan 08, 2008, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

The other "gimmick" team that have the same qualities of simplicity and lack of macro-management is the three Paragon + Orders team. But that only really shines when the player is a Paragon with SY! and TntF!.

That is very true, but really, on a paragon, you can pretty much fill the other slots with any builds you want and win regardless. The paragon turns HM into NM, and NM into EM.

Old Man Of Ascalon · Jan 08, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

You don't know what you're talking about. You're confused between Minion bombing and Minion master

Only the uninformed say that

Because it's not a MM build

?!?!??!?!?

The Explosive Growth Rt/N bomber is far supieror to this "thing" you all are calling a MM bomber. WTF kind of MM uses Extinguish, Aegis and Prot Spirit? The hero will sit there and cast prot spirit on the minions, and isn't their whole point of existance to blow up and die? Stop trying to make a MM into a Monk, thats not their job, unless they are an Infuse Condition Mayrtr MM.

Jagged Bones is worthless, and yes, I am informed.

Also, how can you say it isn't a MM build when it clearly has minion skills? Ohh wait, minion bomber, ahh right........it still sucks.

moko · Jan 08, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

way to ruin your own thread, grats.

also, after looking at your vanquishing bars and the comments about the necro builds, i had to giggle.

the backline is absolutely terrible, a single SF with BA to supply random burning is crap. 3 rangers are too much, you never heard of warriors, minions are actually crap in HM if you don't bomb them etc etc.

blue.rellik · Jan 08, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Man Of Ascalon

The Explosive Growth Rt/N bomber is far supieror to this "thing" you all are calling a MM bomber. WTF kind of MM uses Extinguish, Aegis and Prot Spirit? The hero will sit there and cast prot spirit on the minions, and isn't their whole point of existance to blow up and die? Stop trying to make a MM into a Monk, thats not their job, unless they are an Infuse Condition Mayrtr MM.

Jagged Bones is worthless, and yes, I am informed.

Also, how can you say it isn't a MM build when it clearly has minion skills? Ohh wait, minion bomber, ahh right........it still sucks.

Wrong. You are unaware of the ability to put utility skills on a skillbar. Your opinion is now worthless

k thx bai